までも

Even, To even, To the extent of

まで

Even, To even, To the extent of

Structure

Verb［る］+ まで(も)
Noun + まで(も)

Details

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Standard
使用域
一般

Rare Kanji

迄

About まで

The adverbial particle まで is used in the same way as many other adverbial particles, in that it is highlighting that the statement that comes after it as important in some way. However, unlike our first look at まで, which discussed its use as 'until', this use of まで has the nuance of 'even', or 'to the extent'. It can be used after verbs or nouns.

私(わたし)はお金(かね)を払(はら)ってまで旅行(りょこう)には行(い)きたくない。
I would not go to the extent of paying money to go traveling.
お腹(なか)が空(す)きすぎて、大(だい)嫌(きら)いなバナナまで食(た)べた。
Because I was so hungry, I even ate a banana, which I hate.

Although using まで as 'even' may seem different to 'until', they are essentially the same thing in Japanese. This is because まで always means '(A) まで, (B)', where (A) is the 'limitation/extent', and (B) is the 'noteworthy factor'. This 'noteworthy factor' will usually be a descriptive word/phrase, such as a verb, adjective, or explanation.

バイクまで持(も)っているの？
You even have a bike?
一回(いっかい)笑(わら)ったら、面白(おもしろ)くない話(はなし)までおかしくなる。
Once you start laughing, even uninteresting topics become funny.

Fun Fact

The も particle is sometimes grouped together with まで, when the meaning is 'even'. This just adds emphasis to the fact that the event is somewhat surprising, or that the result is satisfying.

私(わたし)はスポーツカーまでも持(も)っています。
I even have a sports car.

Synonyms

Examples

--:--

夜中(よなか)まで日本語(にほんご)の文法(ぶんぽう)を勉強(べんきょう)している。

I'm studying Japanese grammar even in the middle of the night. (to the extent・until)

お腹(なか)が空(す)いているとき、熊(くま)は果実(かじつ)まで食(た)べる。

Bears will even go as far as to eat berries when they are hungry. (to the extent・until)

お金(かね)を払(はら)ってまでテストを受(う)けたくない。

I don't want to go to the extent of paying money to take the test.(even...to the extent of・until)

頭(あたま)まで痛(いた)くなってきた。

Even my head is starting to hurt. (to the extent・until)

君(きみ)たちがいたから、ここまで来(こ)られた。

Because you guys were here, we were able to come as far as this point. (to this extent・until)

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- The Particle まで II
  Imabi
- The Particle まで
  Imabi
- まで: Adding Unexpected Factors
  Wasabi

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- Tobira
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まで – Grammar Discussion

Most Recent Replies (13 in total)

Tim
I have a question that is well represented by this example:

お腹なかが空すいているとき、熊くまは果実かじつまで食たべる。

Bears will even go as far as to eat berries when they are hungry.

Is there any nuance to adding the “まで” to the noun here (berries) instead of the verb (eat)? Would this be equivalent:

お腹なかが空すいているとき、熊くまは果実かじつを食たべるまで。

To me, this feels more like the English equivalent of “Bears will even go so far as to [eat berries]” whereas the original feels like “Bears will go so far as to eat even [berries]”
jelly1
The structure box says it is used with dictionary verbs but from what I’ve seen (examples included), it’s used with 〜て form.

e.g. 大ケガしてまで手に入れた
Konachan
Like @jelly1, I also got confused by the 〜て form used in the examples.

I got confused by the example: “お金を払ってまでテストを受けたくない” Which uses 払う in its て-form so I searched a the www a bit and came to the conclusion: Using the dictionary form in the above example (お金を払うまでテストを受けたくない) would be translated to “I don’t want to take the test until I payed for it” which fits “Verb + まで” (N5 Lesson 8 6/13) but not までも. As this is new grammar for me, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but I think it should be “Verb[て] まで”
- How to use まで ( = made) – Maggie Sensei (A reference included here on bunpro) also states “5. even […] (3) Vて ( verb te-form) + まで ( = made): to do something even doing something/ to go so far as ~”